Warhammer fantasy tactics

[flamingkillamajig]

So i've been thinking about getting 60 stormvermin total (40 more to add to my 20), giving them queek, increasing WS and str to 5, and then just throwing down death frenzy on the whole group. This would give them 50 str 5 WS 5 attacks at initiative 5. This is quite nasty for skaven actually.

I can do that or throw the 60 stormvermin under a screaming bell, give them death frenzy with the grey seer on top and maybe roll some random thing to let them all attack as if in base contact (60x3 attacks so 180 attacks which is like 50 dead elf troops in one close combat provided they don't go first) or they could get another extra attack and be 4 attacks for the first rank or maybe an extra attack and re-roll to hit etc. 4 attacks for the front rank and everybody able to re-roll to hit for a whole turn would be nice. The screaming bell also includes the grey seer in the unit so i don't have to throw it on the side.

In case you're wondering why i have to choose it's because queek and his special stormvermin unit can't be joined by a grey seer or push a screaming bell. I think i'll go the way of queek with WS 5 str 5 stormvermin with death frenzy and a grey seer nearby. The extra str and WS will be much needed and it's far more reliable than a screaming bell. I have always wanted to use a screaming bell though. I suppose now i'll have to get 40 more stormvermin, queek and a grey seer. That route is more reliable but the special stormvermin cost more so that route is also going to cost more points. It'll be worth it though i think.

So yeah i think that's a good idea. If nothing else maybe i can imbue them with poisoned attacks or soften the enemy a bit before hitting them with some death frenzied stormvermin blades and chopping them to pieces. I can only hope i get this to work. The enemy can still prevent my magic from going off. I may need more warlock engineers in my army again. Luckily i have enough of them anyway. May also see if i can skavenbrew the unit of stormvermin or at least the clanrats.

[cheminhaler]

That sounds like an expensive regiment. Is the rest of your army clanrats or slaves?

Also.. lists! Probably don't bother writing unit point costs, just the overall points of the army..

[flamingkillamajig]

I was thinking up a list earlier. I added up the points in my head and the stormvermin amount to about 750 pts in a unit of 60 upgraded by queek with banners, etc. That's enough to count for 25% core up to a 3k game which is what i play. I may be able to get rid of my clanrats with that, throw in the warpfire thrower and see what else i can use. I'm thinking of getting rid of the rat ogres and warlord with fellblade on bonebreaker for now. That should free up a lot of point for everything else. Gonna see what i can do. Rat ogres are decent but having a squad of 4 with a leader doesn't do too much. I'll need at least 6 or more before they start doing some hard hitting. Honestly i'd still use the warlord with fellblade on bonebreaker if it wasn't for needing to take queek. I might have to free up some points so i can stay under the 25% for lords limit. I'll see what i can do.

Currently the stormvermin with death frenzy and queek should be able to handle most enemies. My biggest fear is facing warriors of chaos, chaos daemons possibly and the death star 35 grave guard unit with regeneration +5 armor save +2 to hit and +2 to wound against most of my units (str 6, killing blow, WS 7 due to helm of commandment). Granted the death star that is the grave guard with regen banner, banner of the barrows and helm of commandment often leaves the helm of commandment unit in buttfucking position of the grave guard but the weakness is if the unit with the guy wielding helm of commandment is in melee then they can't use it and they have to stay within 12" of the unit they give helm of commandment to. So what i need to do is get him to try to run my guys down and overstretch himself. Plus his unit with the helm of commandment is a very crappy skeleton unit. If i can outflank or get back there somehow i could wreak some serious damage on him. I'd still need to hit his death squad (literally a death squad since they're dead) of a death star unit with flaming attacks. I wouldn't mind as queek can always challenge but i'm not sure anything really bad happens to the regen banner BSB if he declines a challenge. They just can't use his leadership and he probably goes to the back which really doesn't even matter for undead most of the time. Even worse this same guy knows already that he can just accept a challenge with his champion which sucks for me. I do it all the time myself but how he learned it so fast i'll never know.

Update:

Ok i just re-learned that 2 of the results for the screaming bell are much better than i thought by a long shot. First one effects all units in 12" and the 2nd effects all in 24". So i can still take my death frenzied stormvermin death star and have a screaming bell nearby. The first ability does cracks call collapsing of buildings on a +4 and also gives +1 attack to everybody within 12" effecting all my units that close (plague censers, rat ogres, clanrats, stormvermin and everything else! The 2nd also effects everything in my army but has a range of 24" and adds +1 attack and re-rolls to hit and to wound (rather than just to hit). Now it could give my souped up stormvermin 60 attacks at str 5, WS 5 and initiative 5 re-rolls to hit and to wound. I did the math against elves. That's over 50 dead! Possibly slightly more! It also gives about 48 dead for orcs and other toughness 4 units with +5 armor and even WS 4. The 2nd of these two abilities also allows D6" movement for anybody not in melee yet and in the 24" range.

[cheminhaler]

Hang on!

'Getting rid of' the clanrats?

Surely clanrats should be a major part of your army. I know stormvermin have better armour, weapons and WS than clanrats, but you're paying more points for them..
It sounds like you're moving away from horde tactics and making elite, uber-skaven..

[flamingkillamajig]

Well i'm actually going to use 85 clanrats with the grey seer on the screaming bell for them to push and i'm going to use 60 specialty stormvermin with queek leading them. I'm probably going to have the plague monks pushing the plague priest on the plague furnace and the plague censers as well. So basically i'm going to cut out a few things but most likely the rat ogres and warlord on rat ogre bonebreaker with fellblade along with the gutter runners being taken out most likely. I plan to have the storm banner with my stormvermin as well since shooting will be one of the key weaknesses of this tactic esp. with war machines. I should have enough points left in a 3k game to use my hellpit but the doomwheel might also retire in a game that size. I suppose i could try to go for the most points i can do though. Might not end well for me though even if quite a few really good or hardcore players have that much stuff to field.

So yeah as i mentioned my clanrats are going to be pushing the screaming bell. I won't get rid of them. I might put them behind my super death star stormvermin unit though. At least a couple people in my facebook friend's list want to face it. One of them is a ridiculous player i would probably get owned against. The other i'm currently of similar skill with i think but really it's more a comparison of army lists. I think with this new list i'd destroy the shit out of him. Might want to use cloud of corruption to kill his fanatics though before they come after me. I really hate those things but hopefully i can withstand them somehow. My guys shouldn't run though esp. if i get death frenzy off. I may need more sorcerors as well to see if i can't get the spells i actually want to use more frequently. Question is though where would i put them?

[cheminhaler]

In with either regiment, I suppose.

So fantasy has changed so much that the lots of smallish regiments of 30-50 skaven has pretty much disappered?
Also would you say having sorcerors (or ward saves for dwarves) is really essential these days?

[flamingkillamajig]

I think wizards are a fairly big deal. It depends as there are some armies which have a decent amount of magic and some douchers which use some tzeentch special hero greater daemon/daemon prince and know like 2-3 entire lores with one guy. It's fucking ridiculous. I hate fighting against people with magic phases that don't seem to end or with so many spells by knowing entire lores that they can throw down any spell they want pretty much at any time. It's even worse when they have multiple good spells or spells that can work well in conjunction with each other.

Magic is fairly tricky though as you might not roll the spells you want and the amount of dice you get for each magic phase is very random. It's esp. hard for sides that don't have special ways to gain more magic dice. What i hate is when people combine 2 dark magic abilities like lowering stats and then using purple sun or something to destroy everything with an initiative test they just lowered. Then death magic has a special attribute that gives you power dice for every kill. Basically it turns their magic phase into a never-ending magic phase and this is generally after doing a lot of damage to start off with. Luckily being skaven my guys are often disposable so i'm usually fine.

The real reason i want more wizards is so i can get the spells i want because skaven have no special heroes, etc. that know entire lores. Basically it's just getting somewhat lucky with the dice even with a level 2 plague priest and level 4 grey seer. Perhaps another one or two warlock engineers could be useful. Problem is i don't know where to put em. I suppose i'll just keep them outside of the units and have them travel behind them. Hopefully that'll keep them safe.